Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship

Last updated: 28 June 2015

The Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship International (LEFI) is a registered Christian society which operates as a an independent church denomination and prayer group. The headquarters is located in Chennai, India and it has branches in numerous parts of India and in a few cities outside India. They have a strong drive for evangelism and expect the new souls to join in their own church services. Un-ordained men or laymen preach, evangelise and usually work pro bono while holding a secular job. There is a Bible training school for the people who wish to work full time in this organisation. The classes are generally one or two hours a day and teaching of Biblical languages are not undertaken. There is no definitive period of study for a student and the training could last from a few months to many years. It is not clear if these full time staff get paid for their work. Often the spouse has to hold a secular job to help with the finances. Doctors have “gospel clinics” under their banner. They also run schools in Chennai, Salem, Mettupalayam & Bansi. They manage a hospital in Kashmir. They have their own printing facilities and publish a lot of literature in English, Indian languages and a few non-Indian languages operating under the name Beautiful Books. They publish a magazine called Christ Is Victor. The Indian edition is paid and published monthly while the international edition is published bi-monthly and is available both on their website and physically distributed free outside India. They have a sprawling convention (or retreat) centre called Beulah Gardens in the out skirts of Chennai.

The people who area a part of this organisation (there is no membership) generally have great devotion to the Daniel family and so the Daniels exercise undue charismatic authority on the organisation. All offerings have to be sent to the head quarters (HQ) which controls everything which is in turn controlled by a Daniel. There are allegations that some evangelists do not send all the money to HQ as there is no proper system to check the offerings. But since the offerings flow to the HQ, they can buy property without explicitly asking for funds. But the branches that sent in the money often do not have access to money and so sometimes people use personal money for church activities. The finances are kept secret contrary to the rules of India. People are also expected to marry inside the organisation and the leaders especially Mr. Joshua Daniel do the match making.

It was founded in 1935 by Mr. N. Daniel as a ministry among unemployed youth in Madras (now known as Chennai). Mr. N. Daniel was born in 1897 in Ambalapuram, Andhra Pradesh and graduated with a degree in Mathematics. He married Ms. Deevena and was working as a Mathematics teacher when he was called to help in Madras. He was not very successful in finding jobs for these youth but he taught them the Bible. Missionaries (probably foreign) invited him to preach in churches and there was revival. Soon he became famous as a revival preacher. He remained independent and had the first retreat or convention of his own group in 1945. His ministry and reputation grew steadily till his unexpected death in 1963. Expecting that he would rise again in three days, his burial was delayed.

His eldest son, Joshua Daniel took over the organization after the death of his father. He generally followed the preaching style, theological views and working style of the father. “The son feels pressured to imitate the father. Perhaps this is one reason why so much of what he says sounds affected, artificial, fake”. In the 50 years under his leadership, the Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship grew greatly with branches in numerous cities and towns of India and a few foreign countries. The congregations in the foreign branches tend to be very limited but the India branches are well attended. He has started schools, a bakery and they run clinics and a hospital. He lived in the USA for decades but criticised people who went overseas and often urged them to return to India. He used to travel to many countries to preach. The mainly Indian organisation was remotely and tightly controlled by him from the USA. He did not believe in a democratic government of the church and had contempt for committees. There is no clear designation of leaders in the organisation and they have limited power. They could be installed or removed by him at any time without any formal procedure. This seems to have created a situation where people who curry the favour of Joshua Daniel and other leaders are given importance and Biblical qualities for a leader seems to be not often important. He married Dr. Lily and had 5 children (Betty, John, Joseph, James and Lydia) who are all settled in the USA.

The other children of Mr. N. Daniel also had important roles in Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship. Mrs. Kamala Paul helped develop a ministry in Germany, maintained the finances for a while and was involved in children’s and women’s ministry. Her husband Whitsun Paul was in-charge of the Bible training college for many years and had responsibility in the headquarters. They were later been away to start a ministry in north west India. The late Mrs. Persis and her husband Mr. Peter Iqbal were involved in the ministry in Bombay (now Mumbai) and later in the ministry in Trichy. These two sisters had a very legalistic view of Christianity and infected numerous members by their doctrine. It is very difficult for the people influenced by their wrong doctrine to understand grace and truth. The youngest son, late Mr. Francis Daniel ministered in the headquarters and later in Bangalore. He was in-charge of the music ministry and was in charge of the now defunct Good News For All music company. The music ministry is handled by his son Caleb who is also becoming a famous preacher.

Joshua Daniel passed away on October 18, 2014 and thousands attended his funeral service in Beulah Gardens, Chennai and hundreds the burial in the Kilpauk Cemetery, Chennai on November 1st. Joshua Daniel believed that leadership should continue in the family just as Israel’s priestly family and these successions have happened without opposition. So before his demise, his elder son John Daniel was given leadership of the Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship International. John lives with his wife Birgit and five daughters in Detroit, USA. It appears that he also remotely controls the organisation from the USA. His eldest daughter Betty (Liz Van Camp) seemed to be eyeing a role in the leadership but it was formally announced that she has no part in the organisation due to her multiple marriages and she has not been allowed on the stage. Similar to Absalom, she uses Facebook to woe the members and also brazenly attacks her mother, some leaders and ex-members. After she and her husband tried to physically attack an ex-member, whose family she had been slandering using Facebook and email, a police case was filed against her. She lives with her third husband Chuck Lambdin in South Bend, Indiana, USA. The second and third sons, Joseph and James are critical of the organisation and are not involved with it. His youngest daughter Lydia Daniel name appears in many formal organisational records but she was hardly involved in any of the Indian operation and probably not much of the western operations either. She is not married although it is reported that she has had failed relationships.

Like any organisation, the Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship International has it’s own shortcomings. But unfortunately they portray themselves as a superior and blessed church and it is often impossible to open their eyes to obvious shortcomings. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 13:15 “This people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed” so it seems that many of the members refuse to accept the truth of the Bible but stick to the teaching of the Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship International even if it is wrong. They exhibit characteristics of a cult and use of mind control. As this website seeks to open the eyes and ears of Christians that they may understand the truth, this organisation has been highlighted so that its members and others with similar backgrounds may have their eyes and ears opened.

Some articles that should be helpful in understand the Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship better:

Believe and be saved
Find out how to be born again and if LEF’s mothod is Biblical.

Are gurus needed?
Find out if Christians need gurus and if it is right to treat Mr. Joshua Daniel as one.

Is Extra-Biblical knowledge needed?
Find out if any Christian can know the truth from the Bible or if special knowledge possessed by select individuals needed.

Demons or sin?
Find out if Christians who have wrong behaviour like anger, pride are demon possessed.

How preaching seems to have gone wrong in churches.

The importance of Bible Study
Understand the importance of Bible study.

Christian Gurus – Part 1, Part 2, Part 3
A book about the phenomenon of Christian Gurus in India; including information on LEF and Joshua Daniel.


205 responses to “Laymen’s Evangelical Fellowship

  1. VANYA

    my family i one of the victims of LEF

    • GE

      I hope that you are not presently a victim, Vanya! Since writing my previous posts I have heard of more and more LEF ‘captives’ who have had the boldness and integrity to leave it. It is encouraging that some have sought sound theological training, and themselves become true shepherds of their own sheep in real Christian fellowships. Sometimes their elderly parents (life-long LEF – ers) have, after a while, followed them. Similarly, the generation below is realising that LEF is a cult, at best apostate, and refusing to be subordinated to it, and its owners the Daniel family.

      Sadly some of the younger generation, whose childhood and adolescence was blighted by enforced LEF subjugation because of their parents, have turned their backs on the Christian faith. God will hold the Daniels and their henchmen accountable for that when they have to meet him face to face, as no doubt Joshua Daniel experienced at his death. ‘It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God……’.

  2. GE

    GK 12 August

    Thanks for your testimony about how you turned your back on LEF.

    I wish that more people would post here and on the LEF Whistleblower blog about how they left LEF, and profited spiritually and in other ways from doing so.

    Sharing such testimonies is one of the best ways of helping families who have spent decades living in evil LEF bondage.

    I always hope that the most recent May retreat will be the last one! However wouldn’t it be amazing if one of the LEF stalwarts who was sent up to the platform to give the usual tedious, Daniel-boot-licking testimony, instead announced that as from this moment he was leaving LEF because it is an evil cult which destroys people spiritually whilst robbing them of everything they have (including their time, efforts, and material possessions) in order to fund the comfortable life-styles and power-hungry ambitions of a family of idle, unremarkable Indian emigrees?

    That is the kind of ‘miracle’ that LEF attenders need to witness…….except that it would not be, strictly speaking, a miracle, since it would not go against the laws of nature.

    Any offers from you elderly men who are leaned upon to give your usually predictable ‘testimonies’ year after year?

    • CK

      Marcus Daniel left the LEFI due to doctrinal differences and also due to internal Daniel family issues. He and his wife Esther are happy in a proper church.

  3. So tell me more about this marriage thing. Why do they do a match making business. Do they know the consequences of their actions? Do they try and head to how the culture of India is like or do they just act like, “forget about what your parents think, i match you with this person so take hin?” if so, what happens to the families that disagree?

    Look, you maybe highlighting the good in this family. It’s okay but also consider the bad. They maybe practicing and teaching people gods word. ( which I don’t understand since we all have a brain and a bible.) but in the end of the day, it’s not in the right way. If they at least tried analyzing and changing their way to a better method I wouldnt mind joining that church but they don’t seem to be trying to do that…

    • GE


      Laymen’ Evangelical Fellowship is not a church in any biblical sense, therefore no-one can ‘join’ it. If you worship with these people you will be expected to tithe your income to their leaders, unquestioningly. You will neve be told where your money goes, and since LEF has no formal membership, you will never be asked for your opinion about expenditure, who would be the best people to lead it, or anything else. Everything is controlled by John and Lily Daniel and the henchmen chosen by them for reasons not shared with the mainly Indian congregation which supports the Daniel family’s life-style in the USA. You will be expected to obey the Daniel family and their henchmen in all matters of behaviour, even though their own behaviour does not confirm to the strictness they impose upon you. They will dictate to you how you live, where you live, where you work, whom you marry, where your children are educated, what careers your children follow, whom your children marry and every other aspect of your and your family’s lives. You will be expected to display great reverence towards members of the Daniel family, whether alive or dead. If you are Indian and dare to question the Daniels’s control over you in any of these matters, you will be told that you are probably not a Christian, and threatened with the prospect of ‘bad things happening to you’, such as illness or your children going seriously astray.

      LEF can’t change its ways because everything listed above forms the basis for its organisation and activities. If you want to be a mindless puppet, by all means worship with LEF. Otherwise put as much distance between yourself and LEF people as you can, and look for a truly Bible-based fellowship which will accept and respect you as an active, co- decision-making member of the local body of Christ. Abuse in the power of the Daniels, or freedom in the power of Jesus Christ: the choice is yours.

      • John Kavati

        Is LEF considered a cult or sectarian?

        1. Some churches teach that salvation comes through Christ, plus their little unique way. They say that if you don’t repent or confess your sins a certain way, you are not saved. Romans 10: verse 9 and 10 is very simple but powerful. It needs to be sincere.

        2. Some churches frequently attempt to instill fear into their followers. The followers are taught constantly that salvation comes only through the cult. “If you leave us, you will lose your salvation or you need to repent and humble yourself” they say.

        3. Final mark is the unwillingness of the leaders to let the people grow up. A true shepherd will do everything he can to bring Christian people to maturity as quickly as he can. He will not seek to avoid necessary teaching, nor will he try to keep people from maturity. Many cults perpetuate spiritual dependence so that their followers lose the ability to make independent, rational decisions. Often techniques of brainwashing are used to create robot-like behavior.

        • John Kavati

          I was corrected by a theologian that LEFI is an experimental sectarian church. A cult is usually an organization that alters the fundamental doctrine.

          • GE

            Well, in many ways LEFI does alter fundamental doctrine! It basically preaches works, not grace, but in a covert sort of way.

            I would dispute the use of the biblical term ‘church’ in any event, since it does not follow a biblical ecclesiological pattern by any stretch of the imagination. On the other hand its practices do bear all the marks of a cult.

            Whatever it is, people should leave it/avoid it!!! (!!!!!s not intended to convey sarcasm here).

        • GE

          John Kavati

          I missed your earlier post on 9 Aug. 9.45am. However I think it answers your own comment elsewhere on this blog about having been ‘corrected by a theologian’ as to the actual definition of LEFI’s status (not a cult but an ‘experimental sectarian church’). We should all be theologians as far as possible, but nobody in LEFI is, or ever has been – adding to the problems.

          LEFI fulfils all three of the criteria for a cult that you mention here. Whatever LEF founders started off as being, the organisation has been a cult for decades now, and unashamedly clings on to its cultish characteristics via the Daniel dynasty and their henchmen (whilst getting hot under the collar about being described as a cult, a definition they do not understand, and do not want to understand, as acknowledgement would remove their income and power).

    • A match maker gets to control people and that can be exhilarating and addictive but is very un-Christian. Match making has been disastrous in some occasions but LEF doesn’t seem to bother with the consequences. When problems arise, the couple go LEF elders for help and become easy targets to be manipulated. When one partner wants to stop attending LEF, the other will not co-operate. They would rather attend LEF alone than worship God elsewhere as a family. So you are usually stuck with LEF. There is a case where the husband stopped attending LEF with the children. The wife’s loyalty to LEF was greater than the desire to worship God with her husband and tiny children for many years! When problems came between the two, LEF never took any step for resolution and actually encouraged it to go out of hand. But they keep saying that when the “wayward” husband returns to LEF, problems will be solved! All this ensures that people will not easily leave LEF. So this man has been regularly pressurised to return to LEF just to fix his marriage problems.

      I’m not sure if you are an Indian and understand the culture. Arranged marriage (match making) has been the nearly universal means of marriage in India till recently and is still very common. Falling in love and getting married was frowned upon till recently by the society. So it is easy for LEF to teach that arranged marriage is Biblical and “love” marriage is sinful. LEF members are very proud of their arranged marriage and will proudly say that they did “God’s will” in their marriage. Both parents and children generally agree for the match. If the parents are not part of LEF, I presume the child will lean to LEF more than the parent.

      I think GE has answered your second paragraph quite well. I don’t know why you want to join LEF. When John Daniel took over after the death of his father, he should have analysed and changed the entire fellowship to something better and more Biblical. Instead he is encouraging people to watch video messages of his father and doesn’t seem to have much to contribute.

    • CK

      Do you know why most of the Indian families want to find a groom or bride within their caste? It is to protect their assets and secrets within their family.
      Now if you apply the same mentality to the LEFI, they match-make internally to safeguard and protect their doctrinal interpretations and methods. They feel that if a LEFI person marries a non-LEFI person, they will start questioning.

      • GE


        Absolutely! However the Daniels and co. do make efforts to involve non-Indian Christians who do not owe their ‘conversions’ to LEF, westerners such as the late Colin Peckham and Norman Duncan (UK). I think this is to validate The Daniel ‘ministry’? Joshua Daniel liked to show that western preachers approved of him (marrying his sons off to westerners helped to gain him acceptance…….or so he imagined). These western men are not really known in their own countries, other than the fact that Colin Peckham and wife had something to do with some kind of revival in Scotland (I think), and a small book about it was published. Assuming that they are/were reasonably orthodox in their thinking, one wonders why they did not spot the falseness of most LEF teaching. Another prominent non-Indian was the adulterous John Branch – whose style of preaching is characteristic of the dubious ‘holiness movement’ (ironically!), and whose grasp of theology is probably very slender – or so it appeared from his ‘messages’. Then there are the Australians, Arthur Hill and Rodney Bills. Arthur Hill is unknown outside of his obscure ‘Streams’ ministry which sells his products online at a discount if one becomes a ‘member’. Rodney Bills is even less traceable in Christian circles, although his retreat role is restricted to ‘master of ceremonies’ (and the tuneless bellowing of hymns from the platform). From personal experience I think that Joshua Daniel suitably modified his ‘preaching’ when not in India, and since these men did/do not speak Indian languages, they would not, at retreats, have got to know the kind of Indians who are most affected and bullied by LEF. Although, in fact, the wife of one of the German adherents admitted to me that ‘he (JD) speaks very differently to Indians’. And even if they did share a common language, the Indians would not share their concerns because they (and Europeans to a degree) were bullied into thinking that ‘it is sinful to question/challenge ‘God’s anointed’, which is what Joshua Daniel and co. liked to call themselves (blasphemously, in fact ). I doubt whether Indians in India were encouraged to mix with the westerner visitors much outside of meetings, and I gather that Europeans are housed separately if they attend May retreats.

        The other intended barrier to the sharing of concerns about LEF by attenders would be the insistence that only prayer, Bible reading, buying and reading LEF books, and listening to Joshua Daniel and others droning on from the platform should take place when people got together (at retreats). This certainly happened in Europe (not that most people at European retreats took any notice!). I think that was, like enforced marriage within the LEF cult, a way of trying to make sure that there was no informal fellowship which might result in discussion and hence resulting doubts about the doctrinal position (or lack thereof) that LEF occupies.

        • CK

          I admire your clarity in thought. Most of the LEFI families are brainwashed to an extent that they protect the leadership at any cost. If anyone questions them about the leadership, their responses are “we shouldn’t question the Lord’s anointed” or “whoever has no sin, let him cast the first stone”. These responses are quite common in LEFI families so the leadership can hide behind them. Due to this, families have been split, emotionally scarred and damaged.
          In the 1960s, when a LEFI evangelist left this informal organization (I agree that LEFI is not a church), he was bad mouthed from the pulpit as a sinner who backslid due to pride and arrogance. He was asked to humble himself and repent. After much persuasion, this evangelist came back to the LEFI only to be further embarrassed in front of the entire congregation (asking him to stand in front of the congregation and confess his pride for exiting their organization). Thank God that he eventually left LEFI and started his own ministry which is still thriving today.

          • GE

            John K
            I was never a committed LEF person, but because of personal circumstances worshipped for a period with a few LEF people local to me outside of India, until the abusive and apostate nature of the organisation itself became something I could no longer ignore. I was suspicious and distrustful of the Daniels almost from the beginning, and avoided Joshua as far as common politeness would permit. It has been sad, in the light of the even worse things now coming to light, to cease my continuing personal contact more recently with the few locally based LEF-ers who are still trying to build up LEF, and of whom I remain fond; but necessary, I feel. I said all there was to say years ago. It has now been openly confirmed by others. Only God can enlighten them, as indeed he has other ex-adherents.

            Towards the end of the period I spent with LEF-ers I was made personally aware of a youngish non-Indian couple who had been ‘converted’ in LEF, married by order of Joshua Daniel, and sent to a different country to ‘help run the LEF ministry’. After years of submitting their every thought and action to the judgement and decision-making of Joshua Daniel, they began to have doubts. However when they tried to meet with Joshua and Lily Daniel for discussion, they were peremptorily told by them that ‘if they left LEF bad things would happen to them. Their children would go astray, and they would become ill.’ It was the cruelty of this treatment, ironically, that finally caused them to leave – the family had already had major medical problems for a long time. As far as I know they have thrived since they moved away. The wife told me that as a result of attending another church they finally realised that LEF teaching was not biblical, and that their own family had been right in warning them that LEF was cultish.

            Sadly many LEF adherents believe this unpleasant and lying Daniel nonsense, and are kept in bondage to LEF by unnecessary fear.

            After I severed contact with the organisation, a normally intelligent LEF adherent, a friend, a professional man whose family had been dominated by LEF and Joshua Daniel for generations, gave me the ‘shouldn’t question the Lord’s anointed’ treatment. He wrenched so many random Bible texts out of context, and even asked me whether I was not afraid of challenging ‘the Lord’s anointed’; his ominous implication was reminiscent of the words of the Daniels to the defecting couple, as relayed above. I responded negatively, in detail, and in context from Scripture. In the end he became quite petulant and said that he ‘was not going to respond to me any more’. Our two familes have since been in amiable contact, but LEF was a ‘no go’ subject. Ex-patriot Indian LEF-ers are personally in a good position for compromise, as they are free to attend, even become members of, local churches (since LEF has never really taken off outside of India). However, as you indicate, the tentacles of LEF never quite shrivel, partly because Joshua Daniel used to keep tabs on them and e.g. still order them to tithe to him, and partly because their families remaining in India are often still deeply entangled in LEF. Thankfully some have broken their LEF bondage completely despite these difficulties.

            Your example demonstrates further what an evilly pervading influence LEF and the Daniels are on the vulnerable and gullible. They should be exposed even more widely than they are currently being through the efforts of Suniemi and the LEF Whistleblower blogs.

            • CK


              Wow. I was under the LEFI’s pathetic teaching (mostly non-biblical) most part of my life. After moving out of India, I started attending a church with sound doctrine that exemplified NT Christianity (full of grace, mercy and truth). That is when I realized that I wasted most of my life listening to sub-standard teaching, lack of sermon construction, preaching with no goal and with no application/factor points whatsoever. Most of the illustrations given from the LEFI pulpit is about people who disobeyed them or abandoned them and how God’s wrath will devour them.

  4. Andrew Jebaseelan

    Hello LEF Brotherers In South Africa, Johannesburg,

    Can I have a contact of LEF church nearby Killarney, Johannesburg – 2001, South Africa. to attend the Sunday service .

    • GE

      Dear Andrew Jebaseelan

      Please look for a bona fide church instead of trying to find one of the meetings of this discredited LEF organisation. There are plenty of good churches in South Africa, including Dutch Reformed churches, some of which would have English services. They are usually very sound in theology, unlike LEF, and you would profit spiritually from some real, expository preaching.

  5. Sister Mary

    For those who are still claiming LEF to be 2nd Heaven or what ever, and for those who still think the Daniels are saints and they do every thing by Gods will and Gods instructions

    Can any one challenge Lily Daniel the below situation.

    In a particular center when Lily was there she told her stooges not to count the offerings when one particular (True & Faithful) Evangelist is around or in front of him.

    Ask her to deny this fact?

    I wont wonder if she denies this fact because if she can dare say such a thing she can very well dare to say that she did not tell it.

  6. ‘Layman’:

    LEF can hardly be a church in the New Testament sense. If you read Acts and the epistles with this in mind, you will understand why. New Testament churches had rules of government, and the God-ordained means of disciplining all its members, whether leaders or not, which they plainly did!

    Who has ever been able to discipline the Daniels in their so-called ‘leadership’ , and by what means? They are self-appointed and accountable to no-one. In a New Testament church that would not be the case; in cultish groups it is always the case that the leadership is both poisonous and invulnerable, as have been, and still are, the Daniels.

    One of the duties of every Christian is to assist in cleansing the Body of Christ of evil, especially where that evil is present in leadership. You see it happening time and time again in the Bible. You may not like the comments of some bloggers here, and you may well feel that some of what is written is ‘of the flesh’. However what exempts you, or any other LEF attender, from encouraging and playing your part in such cleansing, and doing so firmly, and in such a way as to help those who react strongly because they feel betrayed and powerless. It could be argued that by not following Biblical patterns of church government and discipline, you and other LEF die-hards are responsible for the appearance of the very comments to which you object. If biblical leadership and discipline are ignored and not put into practice for eighty years, corruption will inevitably result, and some of the people who have seen their friends and families abused for decades in the name of Christ will eventually react very strongly and instinctively when at last given the opportunity and freedom to object. LEF has protected itself against the practice of godly discipline by using the very arguments you propose here.

    Rather than criticise those who seem to allow ‘the flesh’ to dominate what they write, could you not have directed your more ‘spiritual’ understanding of their plight into investigating how evil leadership and apostasy were dealt with in the Bible, and then set about emulating this, so that the offending bloggers will no longer be stumbled by it? The LEF ‘spiritual head’ you draw attention to is not to be admired as much as you think. He failed to address, or separate himself from, the evil of which he became aware. He didn’t even identify it, according to you. His inaction in the past, and that of many others in his position, helped to create the present climate of anger and bitterness which gives rise to the kind of reaction to which you object.

    There are more than enough facts available to demonstrate that LEF is not an organisation that committed Christians should now support or associate themselves with. You yourself have stated that you have been aware of spiritual wickedness within it for a long time. The biblical command to separate ourselves from such evil is clear – ‘Come out from their midst and be separate’, says the Lord, ‘and do not touch what is unclean’ (2 Cor. 6:17).

    • CK

      If LEFI wants to set things right, the Daniel’s need to pray and do the following as part of their repentance

      1) Admit their dictatorship attitude and ask the forgiveness of everyone that they have affected from the pulpit. A true shepherd will have a servant’s heart and not a dictator’s.
      2) Will come clean of all financial records (Clarity on Income/Expense) with no ambiguity.
      3) Will publish their financials to the entire congregation on a yearly basis.
      4) Board of directors should be picked from the congregation and not from Daniel’s family or their sympathizers alone.
      5) A decent wage with benefits will be provided to every LEFI worker.
      6) LEFI Bible College needs to be revamped and should come under the academic accreditation of an approved university.
      7) Re-state their Statement of Faith and assess if they have deviated from the fundamental doctrine.
      8) All the so-called preachers in LEFI needs to receive training on how to prepare a sermon with the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
      9) Above all, will produce the Fruit of the Spirit: Love and the characteristics of Love: joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. If we show these characteristics, all the law is fulfilled.
      10) Engage in community projects locally. Non-Christians are not going to show up in Church, the Church needs to go to the community.

      • CK

        11) Stop the match-making, its ridiculous. This is not your calling.

      • GE

        I don’t think the Daniels themselves should or could do anything useful except disappear into obscurity whilst each one examines himself/herself before God, repents, restores what he/she has stolen, apologises to the individuals and families damaged by Daniel tyrrany, and maybe then believes the true Gospel. The same goes for their henchmen.

        False teachers were ejected from power in the NT. They were not even allowed to attend services, and certainly not allowed any further influence in the local church. It may be that when they had shown genuine repentance and conversion they were eventually allowed back to worship with the congregations they had misled.

        Meanwhile local LEF groups, having ejected the Daniel regime, could decide whether they want to study New Testament principles together and eventually appoint their own elders, or first join up with sound local churches where they might receive help in understanding these.

        As my father used to say, ‘You can never make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear’ (though for God, I suppose nothing is impossible!).

        Most of the Daniel family members are sow’s ears (including the estranged Betty). If and when the Daniels and other malefactors are ejected from Indian erstwhile LEF meetings, Christian fellowships need to be warned about them, lest they try to join and influence other congregations.

        However none of the above is going to happen, realistically, is it ? So the wisest course of action for LEF-afflicted folk is to cut their losses and turn their backs on the whole LEF circus. Unless they can afford lawyers to re-acquire LEF assets from Lydia Daniel, to whom their ownership is gradually being transferred it seems.

  7. Have a blessed Lord’s Day, brothers and sisters (if it still is, in India!).

  8. Alsing: Esther prayed, fasted, AND as a result contrived a plan to rid her people of the evil Haman! She was not daunted by the apparently extreme difficulty of what needed to be done. News travels faster than we realise. Ironically ‘A little one shall become a thousand etc.’ in a reverse sense!

    • Alsing patel

      Agree. I can sense that God is guiding us in that direction. Looks like lot has happened in these two months. Yet to come face to face with some one in the same page.

  9. Alsing: I can’t disagree with you about prayer , and I know it is very hard for any in India to leave. But many have….How about, ‘I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me’, though?

    • Alsing patel

      True for people like you and me .We know the best thing is to leave to save ourselves. Thousands and thounds dont even know there is problem. Even if they know they don know some one is speaking up. That is why the lead family and their team is so arrogant. It us hardvto reach such people and the peope on top use them for their advantage. This happenss in all levels top to bottom. Prayer is the onlyv thing that can deal with these kind of strong holds.

  10. No problem, Alsing! This is a very emotional situation for many people. It does not now affect me directly or practically, and so I feel I have less right to protest than all of you; but I am angry on behalf of those you mention whose lives have been ruined by LEF. I am learning of things happening that I would not have credited as possible, even already being aware of LEF’s dubious teachings. We must all do what we can to stop these abuses, perpetrated in the name of a Saviour shared by so many of us.

    I hope that many have complained to the Indian government about anything that is plainly illegal. If no notice is taken by the authorities, then surely the media would be interested. The bad publicity in itself should act as a warning to people not to be drawn into LEF, or to stop supporting LEF. Local ‘evangelists’, those who are not corrupt, surely now ought to take the lead in this, and arrange for their people to continue meeting independently, supported in practical matters as a local group of Christians by the tithes and offerings that in the past have been handed over unquestioningly to the Daniels and their henchmen. What, after all, does one need, initially, in order to worship together and learn the things of God? A place to meet, people to meet with, someone who, with biblical knowledge and prompted by the Spirit, can ‘rightly divide the Word of truth’…….that is all.

    Brothers and sisters, do not be bound to evil company either through fear or because of a sentimental attachment to what you think of as past glories! Even if your own little LEF group is caring and honest, by continuing to support the LEF organisation you are supporting wrong-doing by association. ‘Come ye out and be ye separate’ (from sin, and the world) we are told. The true meaning of the biblical word used for holiness is separation, not just maintaining a veneer of Godliness within a corrupt ethos. Was that not the mistake that righteous Lot made? All the evidence confirms that LEF is of the world, a ‘city of the plains’. Lot was delivered, and you can be too.

    You who are Christians of long standing, and who have been given the privilege of education, should you not now take the lead in this separation, and take some responsibility for your weaker brethren who have not been so blessed?

    • Alsing patel

      Wish it is as easy as you say. The lead family all ready has planned very well and done everything to protect themselves including people who will do anything. Including criminal activity. Some already have done. They have money to buy any one and hurt the ver people who gave it to them.At this point only God can save his people. HE WIL L. God will not give his Glory to anybody. He will show his power. We are going to wath that and he will help the people on Gods side.
      Psalm 21:11 though they plot evil and device wicked schemes they can not succeed.

      The best thing we all can do learn the lesson frim Esther. All of us who care unite in fasting and prayer to save all ghe oppressed and traped. No plot or weapon can beat that.

  11. Suniemi: internet very slow, and cannot seem to find our previous posts re demonology.

    However, you may have misunderstood my thinking on demons; certainly they exist and have power; but just because Jesus cast out demons, and so did the apostles, we cannot assume that this activity should have any prominence in the later church. I do not find much, if any, mention of such a ‘ministry’ in the epistles, compared with the other things that Christians are supposed to engage in – preaching, teaching et al. Hence my thinking would be that the detecting of the presence of directly demonic activity ( as opposed to what Alsing explained he meant by ‘demonic’ in context) is the exception rather than the rule. I once had an ‘interesting’ encounter with a well-known Swiss man in Morocco – Maurice somebody?- who seemed to have developed a ‘ministry’ of going about the world detecting demons in people and ‘casting them out’ (not dissimilar to JD in that respect). The ‘charismatic’ phenomenon was becoming popular at that time . He diagnosed me as having a couple of ‘demons’ on the basis of no knowledge of me whatsoever, except that I was unwell (a ‘bug’, in fact!). I was unimpressed by his theology………and his demeanour. His ‘ministry’ of casting the supposed demons out consisted in shouting out ‘come out, you demons of (something or other – I cannot remember what!) in Jesus’s name!’ after which he expected me to shout ‘hallelujah’ and thank the Lord for my ‘deliverance’. A singularly underwhelming procedure, except that in my view his claims were in themselves, and ironically, ‘demonic’ in their presumption!

    Casting out demons is all the rage in certain circles, which is what I was trying to put into a Biblical context. Over here we have had many cases of immigrants from African countries severely abusing children whom they have diagnosed as being ‘demon-possessed’. I believe some may even have died as a result. Dreadful, and a bad witness to unbelievers who regard them as Christian churches.

    I see no Biblical verification of truly born again people being demon-possessed. Those whom Jesus Himself delivered were not believers before He cast out the demons. However I do believe that in some way even modern believers can be spiritually oppressed by supernatural forces, perhaps demons. There is a difference between being oppressed by external forces and being wholly taken over by them from within. Surely The Holy Spirit does not allow Himself to be ousted, and He cannot co-exist alongside evil.

    There is a well-known book by Frederick Leahy: ‘Satan Cast Out: a Study in a Biblical Demonology’, pub. Banner of Truth p/b, 1.12.1975. I seem to have mislaid my copy, but it us still available. I wanted to refresh my memory of it, but it think I lent it to my daughter. From memory, and bearing in mind that Banner is a very sound and sober publisher, I would say that it is one of the best digests of this topic.

    I would add that I do allow that where occult practice and obvious idol-worship have prevailed, the presence of demons is more to be expected and perhaps more overt. Sadly that ethos is no longer limited to places such as Asia and Africa – over here we worship the idols of materialism and atheism, quite apart from what immigration has brought into our country. We have to keep these things in balance – neither denying their existence, nor giving them undue prominence and attention, as I am sure you agree.

  12. Alsing Patel: no depth of knowledge! Just a bit of a ‘show off’,

  13. Alsing: not sure about your point concerning the names. ‘Lazar’ = Lazarus seems to come from the Hebrew ‘eleazer’ (approximate spelling), which meant ‘someone whom God has helped’, so it may not be that God actually gave a personal name to this man, but the translation into other languages from the New Testament Greek description of this person made it look like a personal name; equally the rich man is sometimes known as ‘Dives’, which is a Latin word simply meaning ‘a rich man’; this might have something to do with the use of the Latin Vulgate translation, one of the early translations from the original Greek (‘koine’) and Hebrew; however again it is not a personal name, and doesn’t seem to appear as such in most English language translations.

    Just saying……..! I am no expert in original Bible languages or texts. Of course every Bible name had a special significance, but in this case you might be reading too much into names as given (or not) in translated versions of the original.

    Any NT Greek/Hebrew scholars reading this? Makes a refreshing temporary change from the dark deeds of the Daniels (none of whom, to the best of my knowledge, took the trouble to acquaint themselves with Greek and Hebrew. Not sure about Whitsun Paul……).

    • Alsing patel

      Me not expert either . But just a simple lesson to know that mention of Lazarus name is so personal even though he was poor while richman became someone among multitudes of lost with their money without God. Just to remind that money is the root cast of evil which we ckearly see and a request to lef to honor the poor too as God did..Lef dont discard the poor when you get some one with money. Admire your depth of knowledge. GE

  14. Alsing: I absolutely agree, and I suspected that this is what you meant. However it did remind me of JD’s over-emphasis on ‘demonic possession’ so I thought it was worth making the comments. LEF teaching us so confused that one can never be quite sure what people believe!

    • Alsing patel

      What ever God calls demonic and abomination they wont preach because they are the one who needs to be saved from those. They and their team preach and do what gives them power to control people and add numbers using everything even the things they seem to dont agree with. Cover up. What is the point. They dont realize they are cheating themselves than others. Everybody know what they are doing. They act as if everybody agree with them zephania 3:5 says the unrighteous know no shame. That is why they do what they do and arogant about their unaccountability. One thing they shoud know poorman Lazarus on Abrahams lap was mentioned by his name . Has an identity. But the rotting rich man was identified by his richness. Nobody knows his name. All their power is not going to help them to know who they are if they dont follow bible and keep ruing peoples life. One day all the people who lost their lives will have identity foe belueving the Gids words that came oOiut of their mouth andvobeyed not them who used it for their glory. Thank you for understanding.

      • Alsing patel

        Though they preach against money and going abroad nit only they did mot follow they favor those people who did not follow them. If you see on the stage pretty much all of the have money, foreign connection or power. Cgeck their family and private life. Most of them double life. But other side of the stage people repent for simple things even negative thoughts. Strange and sure is confusing

        • Yes, I am shocked to see how some who blatantly disregarded LEF “rules”, were and still are favoured by the Daniel family. This opened my eyes to the hypocrisy of the Daniels.

          • Alsing patel

            It is ok if LEf gives pass to some for money even if they dont obey their rules. They know the rules are for their gain and do not mean anything biblically. But knowingly they place some of the worst, who are considered criminals in normal world, in key positions and use them to guide the new comesrs who are seeking the truth. They are not only accountable for their injustice but for the once who are cheating and those got cheated. GE said even if we cut down the curruption to 50%. Obviously you have NO idea. You are not even informed 5% from the other site. You are concerned only for the theology. But the immorality, # of ruined families, abuse, manipulations, coverups , stealing the people from other churches by force. ,hyppocracy to make it look like something which is not, encouragement to fake list is endless . Multiply that with some years.For each problem you have thousands of examples. The sad part is with all these the these people feel that they are biblically strong and try to save others. For me it is the worst hopeless place to be, and they are taking many with them. I dont think i ever heard them saying JESUS LOVES YOU. Apart from getting favored i am not sure anybody feels loved in LEF. People are cautious and bound not free.They are missing core message of JESUS.

            • Alsing (March 28 at 8.53)

              I do not think that either Suniemi or I are only concerned with the theology of the situation, and I don’t think you meant that, really. I think Suniemi sees his role as explaining, soberly and humbly, the faulty theology which is at the root of all the abuses now being exposed. We are both very familiar with the Whistleblower site, which is more concerned with exposing the abuses in some detail. We need both approaches. It may be that Whistleblower came into being at least partly as a result of Suniemi’s blogs (I am sure that Whistleblower will correct this idea if necessary!).

              A faulty foundation causes an unsound building, which eventually collapses, but in the meantime subjects those who live in it to all sorts of worry and pressures. LEF had an unsound foundation. Like many Christian endeavours, it seems to have been started by the late Mr. N. Daniel with goodwill and great enthusiasm, but he seems to have failed to have a correct and Biblical vision for the development of local, self-governing churches. Thus more and more error was left to proliferate without means of correction. In that, LEF is no different from many dubious, allegedly Christian, organisations in the USA and elsewhere. They all, predictably, and eventually, end up involved in some kind of scandalous activity, and are all faulty in their understanding of how the Body of Christ should be governed. It is unwise to ignore the failures of LEF’s founder, much as he was blessed in various ways at various times.

              Therefore it is important to understand the faulty theology which promotes this, so that people do not fall into the same trap in the future. More and more I understand how vital it is not to deviate from God’s Word in our practice, or even regard His directives as options rather than absolutes, in the matter of organising ourselves into a body which functions as He requires it to. You can fast, pray, preach, ‘be humble’ etc. as much as you like, but if you do these things outside of God’s pattern for them, problems will come. Those who lead others into error have much to fear from the Lord. However we too have a duty to expose their wrong teaching and remove them from positions of being able to influence others if they are unrepentant.

              I quite believe that what is being exposed in practice is only the tip of an iceberg of corruption, and I am sure that Suniemi does too. I never heard Joshua Daniel speak in any significant way of the love of Christ, either. It was all about the sinful behaviour of his listeners. I wonder if, behind all his calculated and practised rhetoric, he ever even experienced the love of Christ in a personal way…….that is something for his surviving family members to think about, but particularly Lily and John – they still have time in which to put right their own relationship with God, if necessary, and I hope that they will be enabled by the Holy Spirit to do so.

              Many people are very distressed and angry now, but the errors perpetrated by the Daniel family and others would not have been difficult to discover if people had obeyed the Word and ‘search(ed) the Scriptures daily to see if these things be true’. Even now well-meaning people are continuing to support the LEF, despite having been enlightened, largely because of the LEF lack of theological training and understanding (though sometimes through fear of the consequences, I know). I do not doubt that their behaviour is more God-honouring than mine, and that their routine prayer life is more active and consistent than my own……..but who/what is truly sovereign in their lives? Almighty God, and their loving Saviour, or the history and tradition of a discredited organisation with a totally discredited leadership? It is surely not God’s opinion of believers’ actions which is crucial, since He sees us as washed clean in the Saviour’s blood, but believers’ view of the God in whom they trust.

              Any one of us who has ever participated unquestioningly in the ‘Daniel Empire’ for longer than our understanding of its lack of a Scriptural basis would warrant bears some of the responsibility for its behaviour.

            • Alsing patel

              GE and Suniemi sorry. I did not word right. I know you understand what I mean. I am sure that the whistle blowers are very much strengtened and feel supported by this site. Also the knowledge and understanding from you both otherwise impossible, relieved many from guilt of life time brainwashing ( though trapped). I am sure God raised both the sites to open many eyes because he does command to speak up for those who can not speak for themselves in proverbs 31:9 also the zeal to speak up without knowledge is no good as proverb 19:2 says. What you do is perfect and much needed. Pray from the knowledge they get from you save many, from people who perfectly fit to the warning in 2 peter 3:3.Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

  15. Alsing Patel: not sure if ‘demonic’ is the right word here. Another problem with LEF teaching is its over-emphasis on demonic activity. You don’t see much about demons in the Bible once the early church was established. Historically evil has always been attributed to three sources – the world, the flesh , the devil. I suggest on the basis of evidence that the world and the flesh are usually the prime causes of sin, and being born again surely gives us control over both of these if we choose to exercise it.

    Once you start attributing sin to the direct activity of demons/ Satan, it in a way removes responsibility from man. Undoubtedly Satan still had his demons, but the sins prevalent in the leadership of LEF are almost certainly due to greed (the flesh) and worldliness (including, but not exclusively, a desire for power); when these are present and allowed to flourish, Satan and his demons have nothing more to do!

    Joshua Daniel was very big on talking about ‘demons behind every idol’, and how much power his personal prayer had over these. He also claimed frequently to deliver people from ‘demon possession’. There is little, if any, mention of the need for this kind of activity in the epistles, once the early church was established; similarly re the ‘miraculous healing’ he claimed. Whilst God can effect both of these things, it is the exception rather than the rule. Having worked for a number of years in the mental ill-health sector, I can say that rarely, if ever, have I encountered anything that could be confidently described as the work of demons, although symptoms of mental illness sometimes seem similar to the cases of demon possession we encounter during the ministry of Jesus as described in the NT. The grace of God that we read about in the Scriptures is designed carry us through troubles with Him at our side, rather than to be delivered from them, including illness and the death of loved ones. Spontaneous healing may be granted, and we thank God if He does, exceptionally, allow this, but there is nothing in the life of the early church, as related in the epistles, to suggest that we should routinely and in the long term be asking for it, or that any one person will permanently be given the means of bringing it about.

    Our eyes, ears, and perceptions are unreliable. We can misinterpret what we see, and see what is not there. The only experiences that we can rely upon to be truly of God (or Satan!), no matter who is involved, are those which Biblical principles validate.

    I have gone off at a tangent here; however I always felt uncomfortable about the claims Joshua Daniel made about the ‘miracles’ which seemed to punctuate his life and travels.

    Perhaps people will respond to this by telling me that they have witnessed such things. My answer would still be that my only guide in such matters consists in drawing out principles from Scripture, and judging the validity of other people’s and my own experiences by what they teach.

    • Alsing patel

      This is what i meant, not the version of Lef which is used for their adbantage

      James 3:16. …15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy

    • Earlier, I took a position similar to yours regarding demons. I even wrote Demons or sin? But after writing that, I have read a lot on this issue and changed my position. Even though the epistles don’t discuss demons, Jesus did cast out many and early church leaders did. I now believe that in some cases, demons can trouble Christians. This seems to be a balanced book to read 3 Crucial Questions about Spiritual Warfare”

      • GE


        Although this was last year, I have now finished editing a publication about spiritual warfare, which includes a lot about ‘demonology’. Will try to get it to you online.


      • GE

        Sorry, Suniemi, I now realise that I have already sent you one of the drafts of the ‘Supernatural warfare’ booklet (4 August).


        • GE

          Just to recap – the conclusion from a detailed study of Scripture is that ‘demon’ is a misleading transliteration, not a translation, of an original language word. ‘Evil spirit’ is a better conveying of the meaning (sometimes ‘devil’) of e.g. what had taken over the Gadarene man (in one of the synoptic Gospels, a couple) whom Jesus delivered; that such evil spirits are constituents of man’s own fallen spirit**, not fantastical
          ‘demons’, independent creatures lurking about waiting to pounce on and invade unsuspecting people. That there are many practical explanations for this kind of ‘demon’ phenomena that people think they see in action, some of which are offered.

          ** Given the above, Joshua Daniel was probably the most ‘demon-possessed’ person in LEF!

  16. Alsing Patel: very sad, but never say it is too late! It is too late for the LEF organisation to salvage any kind of credible reputation, but not for the people who have been supporting it, either out of misplaced loyalty, or out of fear, to ‘Understand the Truth’ and escape its influence.

    If you can remember godly people leaving in the past, and we know that they are still leaving, then how can it be too late for others? Remember it is the people who support the LEF. The LEF does not support the people in any way – and if people think that it does, then they are confusing Christian fellowship with the psychological boost of companionship and the feeling that one ‘belongs’. Some people feel safer if they are being dominated by others. Some people are easily hypnotised by deceiving rhetoric.They can all have fellowship in any sound Christian group, but with the additional benefits of genuinely Biblical teaching, and that no-one is going to bully them into submission or rob them of their income, savings, and homes.

    If there is no LEF any more, then there is nothing for vulnerable people to feel they must support. Let us continue to encourage them to seek The Lord where He may truly be found, and not through an organisation which no longer honours Him.





    • Alsing patel

      AMEN and AMEN and AMEN. Deliver your people and keep them safe from the deception of Lef JESUS. God is the only one who can deal with such demonic power.

      • Alsing patel

        Psalm 52:7.”Here now is the man who did not make God his stronghold but trusted in his great wealth and grew strong by destroying others. This is what Lef is now.. Believe wahatever you want dont use others for your greed and destroy their lives. Give them back to God to enjoy the freedom that God gives. Dont steel their freedom LD using Gods name.

    • Dorathy

      Thank you so much GE for expressing in no unclear terms the folly of LEF and I hope and pray people in LEF including John and Lilly pay attention to what you are posting.

      • Dorothy: for their sakes, as well as for the sakes of the abused ones. It is always difficult to know how far to go in exposing such people, who are themselves trapped in a web of error and negative behaviour exacerbated by their own inflated egos. Am I any better than they, in many ways? Not really…… But I thank God that He has always steered me (despite my sinfulness and many failures) in the direction of wanting to establish the truth about Christian matters. Truth does indeed set us free……amongst other things, free from the unhealthy domination of others who may name the name of Christ but who, for whatever reason, distort His teachings. With such a history of cults dating back to Bible times, you would think we would have learnt to detect the signs by now, but still we are too lazy, or too comfortable, or too unnecessarily afraid, to condemn and turn our backs on cultish activity. That is why it is so important to pay serious attention to church history. None of the aberrations we encounter today are new, but it is harder to recognise them quickly without a background in what has gone before.

        Thank you for your kind encouragement. ‘Soldiers of Christ arise, and put your armour on….’, as the old hymn puts it…….


        Thank you again, Suniemi, for getting the ball rolling with your sober and informative web site.

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